Nordic Whole-Grain Rye Bread – Take Two
A few days ago the New York Times published an interesting article on rye by food writer Julia Moskin (Rye, a Grain With Ancient Roots, Is Rising Again.) Having been a huge fan of rye bread ever since I first set foot in Denmark ages ago (see Hanne Risgaard’s Real Rye Bread and Chad Robertson’s Danish Rye Bread) I decided to try my hand at the first of the two recipes posted with the article, Nordic Whole-Grain Rye Bread. Long story short: I ended up making it twice because the first try was a flop.
- The first time I made the bread, I used the buttermilk starter called for in the recipe (buttermilk, rye flour, water and yeast) instead of my regular rye starter (which contains only rye flour and water);
- For both Take One and Take Two, I used my KitchenAid mixer to mix the dough (or rather, the batter);
- Having baked for many years, I know hydration is never a precise thing, particularly when whole-grains are involved. Dough consistency is key and the best way to learn is through trial and error. To help the would-be rye baker along, Julia Moskin says: “When a walnut-size piece of dough smeared on the rim of the bowl slides slowly and smoothly down the inside, like a snail leaving a trail, it is wet enough.” Well, I did get a slimy slide (honestly, Julia! I wish you had thought of another image) but following the snail trail didn’t pay off for me.
NYT Nordic Whole-Grain Rye, Take One Crumb
Compared to the crumb shot posted with the article, the kindest thing that can be said about the crumb I got on my first try (Take One) is that it looked like mush in a crust. It was seriously damp. Edible when toasted. If you like toasted porridge. Which I found out I do. Especially when spread with orange marmalade. But still not the crumb I had been shooting for. I cut up the loaf in small pieces, ran it through the food processor, then the dehydrator and now I have a full bag of very tasty (and very rustic) rye crumbs.
The good news is that the taste was excellent. No trace of sourness and a depth of flavor that feels deeply Nordic indeed even if a bit milder than the rugbrød I remember from those long ago summers spent in Denmark. Thus Take One definitely called for a Take Two. But I needed help figuring out what to do differently.
Having recently bought The Rye Baker, a remarkably informative (and beautifully photographed) book by Stanley Ginsberg (whom I am following on Instagram,) I asked Stan (@theryebaker) for help. He kindly wrote back, recommending lowering the hydration and increasing the baking temperatures.
Normally I wouldn’t post about a work in progress but after seeing the crumb shots on Instagram, friends have written asking for the changes I made to the recipe to get to Take Two. So here they are:
- I switched from a buttermilk sponge to a close to 80%-hydration rye starter consisting of sour culture, water and freshly milled rye flour. If you’d rather stick to the buttermilk sponge, Stan Ginsberg recommends using 200 g of buttermilk (instead of 85 g) for an 80% hydration;
- I used freshly milled whole-grain rye flour throughout (from starter to final dough);
- I went for 85% hydration in the final dough;
- I adjusted the baking as Stan suggested, pre-heating the oven to 450°F, reducing the heat to 360° F after 10 minutes and baking the bread to an internal temperature of 210°F (my oven is on the hot side, Stan had suggested 200°F;)
- Also, as I love a crusty rye bread, once the loaf was done, I took it out of the pan and put it back in the oven (which was off but still hot) for ten minutes (with door held ajar by a wooden spoon) so that it would dry up on all sides.
Take Two turned out much better than Take One. Still there is a residual line of gumminess at the bottom (as you can see on the crumb shot at the top of this post) and I would like to get rid of it. But the crust is stupendous and I love the taste.
Which means there are at least two other Takes for this bread on my baking horizon:
- One where I will go as low as Stan Ginsberg suggested for the hydration: 80% for the starter but only 75% for the final dough (that will be Take Three)
- Another one (Take Four) where I’ll follow the same formula but will do as another SHB Instagram friend (thank you, @flute_reed_ovens) suggested: that is starting the bake in a covered Pullman (or in a pan covered with heavy foil) at 500°F for about 15 min, then dropping the temperature to 400°F for 15 minutes, uncovering the bread and dropping the temperature further to 325°F for about another 45.
It won’t be right away since we still have a fair amount of the bread left. But soon! Stay tuned.
Meanwhile here is the formula for Take Two (amended as I had forgotten the water in the soaker as a friend kindly pointed out):
Take One, proofed
Take Two, proofed
Take One, baked
Double crumb shot – Take Two
Hi MC, I read with interest your recent post on a rye bread recipe recently published in the NY Times. I admire your openness and honesty in publishing images of bread you feel is not entirely up to your high standards.
I have reviewed my notes from J. Hamelman’s Rye Bread class at KAF. At the risk of offering unsolicited comments I would agree with your corrections. 1). Mix the dough gently not firmly to avoid damaging the pentosans preventing release of water and a resultant pasty crumb. 2). Hot oven 500 degrees F with STEAM with venting after 5-10 minutes and a receding oven temp to allow lateral side walls to firm. 360 degrees seems not hot enough. 3). Bulk fermentatation of two hours seems excessive, especially with a soaker and added sugar. With 100% rye flour and DDT 82 degrees fifteen minutes might be long enough. Perhaps replacement with 10 % bread flour might improve the crumb structure. Good luck with your repeated attempts.
Hi Rod, thank you very much for your advice. I see now that I will need more than two new takes!
I hope you do not mind some ideas/suggestions based on what I learned about baking these kind of breads:
– Something that can help is a long but slow kneading period – in German this is called “Quell-Knetung” which translates literally to “Soak – Kneading”. This takes 20-30 min and enhance the water absorbency. If your kneading machine has some kind of paddle attachment, this would be the first choice. Bulk fermentation afterwards is short, about 30-45 min
– Increasing the dough temperature up to 30-33°C to help soaking the cracked rye. Whole grain rye doughs like warm temperatures!
– Do you soak the cracked rye and sunflower seeds with boiling water or with cold water? A soaker with boiling water (sunflower seeds and part of the cracked rye) can enhance water absorbency. The rest of the cracked rye can be used for the sourdough, so they have enough time to soak, too.
– And do you include the water for the soaker in your calculation of hydration? The bread seems to be still too wet, the flour can’t hold the water while baking, that’s why you get this wet strip. 80% hydration should be fine, but should include all water, the one from the soaker, too.
– The bread from take two looks like slightly, slightly overproofed (slightly sunken in the middle) – but it could be due to the to wet dough, too. But I would keep a close look on the proofing – if your starter is active, then you do not need the yeast at all.
– The amount of sourdough seems a bit to low. Normally for a pure rye bread one third of the rye (take together flour and cracked rye) should be in the sourdough to ensure enough acid to make the rye bake-able.
– A longer baking at a low temperature can help. My Frisian black bread (extremely similar to this Nordic rye) is baked for 140 (!) min (10 min at 220°C, then reduce the temperature to 160°C). This helps to stabilize the bread and enhances the Millard reaction in the bread. The Westphalian Pumpernickel is even baked for 16-24 hours at 120°C
– And such a bread should rest at least for 12 hours, better 24 hours to stabilize the crumb before slicing. This makes a huge difference, too!
Hi Stefanie, thank you so much for your suggestions. I am doing a copy and paste so as to try and reply in the text of your comment.
– Something that can help is a long but slow kneading period – in German this is called “Quell-Knetung” which translates literally to “Soak – Kneading”. This takes 20-30 min and enhance the water absorbency. If your kneading machine has some kind of paddle attachment, this would be the first choice. Bulk fermentation afterwards is short, about 30-45 min
MC: I did use the paddle attachment but I only kneaded for 10 minutes or so. Definitely intrigued by your Quell-Knetung.
– Increasing the dough temperature up to 30-33°C to help soaking the cracked rye. Whole grain rye doughs like warm temperatures!
MC: Good point!
– Do you soak the cracked rye and sunflower seeds with boiling water or with cold water? A soaker with boiling water (sunflower seeds and part of the cracked rye) can enhance water absorbency. The rest of the cracked rye can be used for the sourdough, so they have enough time to soak, too.
MC: I did use boiling water but by the time I used the soaker it was at room temp (I soaked it overnight)
– And do you include the water for the soaker in your calculation of hydration? The bread seems to be still too wet, the flour can’t hold the water while baking, that’s why you get this wet strip. 80% hydration should be fine, but should include all water, the one from the soaker, too.
MC: Yes, it does. (At least I believe so. BreadStorm is the one doing the calculation.)
– The bread from take two looks like slightly, slightly overproofed (slightly sunken in the middle) – but it could be due to the to wet dough, too. But I would keep a close look on the proofing – if your starter is active, then you do not need the yeast at all.
MC: I’d love to do away with the yeast.
– The amount of sourdough seems a bit to low. Normally for a pure rye bread one third of the rye (take together flour and cracked rye) should be in the sourdough to ensure enough acid to make the rye bake-able.
MC: Never thought of adding up the flour and cracked rye to calculate the percentage of sourdough. Great point. Sam Fromartz also suggested on Facebook to up the amount of starter (to fight starch damage).
– A longer baking at a low temperature can help. My Frisian black bread (extremely similar to this Nordic rye) is baked for 140 (!) min (10 min at 220°C, then reduce the temperature to 160°C). This helps to stabilize the bread and enhances the Millard reaction in the bread. The Westphalian Pumpernickel is even baked for 16-24 hours at 120°C.
MC: I will try that next time!
– And such a bread should rest at least for 12 hours, better 24 hours to stabilize the crumb before slicing. This makes a huge difference, too!
MC: Take One rested 36 hours, Take Two 40!
Letting a bread rest for 40 hours before slicing would be too hard for me, I’m impressed that you withstand the temptation – 24 hours are already challenging for me 😀
In Germany, a lot of whole grain rye breads are baked with cracked rye only and as the cracked rye yields pentosanes to the dough, it needs the acids from the sourdough, too. You can buy here cracked rye meal (at mills, not at the supermarket) in three different sizes; fine cracked rye, which is a bit coarser then flour, middle cracked rye and coarser cracked rye. I normally go for the middle and the fine variant.
If you like, take a look at the Frisian black bread recipe here: http://www.hefe-und-mehr.de/en/2016/09/ostfriesisches-schwarzbrot-mit-sonnenblumenkernen/ (I hope you do not mind the link). It works with cracked rye meal only. The recipe is well tested from many of my readers and as it is similar to your recipe it could maybe help you to adjust your recipe.
Your Frisian bread looks terrific and appears very similar indeed. I will definitely give it a try! Thank you, Stefanie.
Hi again, Stefanie! Thinking back on my reply to your comment, I now realize that in fact I didn’t use boiling water for the soaker. I used cold water as called for in the original recipe. I got confused with another formula. I liked using the cold water because the sunflower seeds sprouted. So maybe I should soak the seeds in cold water overnight and hot-soak the rye chops in boiling water just before mixing. But will they be soft enough?
I have experienced some of the same issues so I went back to P. Reinhardt ‘s Crust to Crumb recipe for naturally leavened the and followed it starting with the eye songs starter -mixed the course rye/pumpernickel flour with boiling water allowing it to cool to room temperature before adding my barm, fermented 5 hours then refrigerated it over night. Day 2: when it reached room temperature mixed the firm starter,using the same method until the flour was absorbed adding a bit more water until it came together, fermented 4 hours and refrigerated overnight. Day3: Mixed the dough ingredients and displeased several hours while the firm starter came to room temp,mixed the dough adding more water, probably to a70% hydration then used a boiling method until window pane. Shaped places in bannetons, fermented 4 hours refrigerated overnight. Day 4 hated my combo and oven to 500 ,scored,sprites load with water reduced temp 59450 uncovered pot after 30 min, continued to bake until very dark with internal temp reached 210. Cooked overnight. Day 5: Finally beat crumb after 6 attempt! What we do for love. Rye gets gummy if you handle it too much, I know it seems crazy to increase the hydration but it allowing me to be gentle and avoid the gummy. Hope this helps.
As you imagine, I read it all with great interest…
I had this recipe as my next one to try, but now I think I’ll wait for your next adventure and instead will try my hands at one from Tartine
but, as you, I still have some bread in the freezer, so that might take me a little time
but isn’t Danish Rye the best thing EVER????
It definitely is. I fell in love with it from the get go. Your Tartine bread is gorgeous!
Oh, that one on the blog is not the Tartine – Tartine will be my next attempt, I think.
trying to decide which recipe to go for next
The one in the blog is from Karen’s Kitchen Stories
it is definitely a tricky recipe to master, rye is not for sissies! 😉
Definitely! Sorry for the confusion. Your bread is still gorgeous!
I think I’m seriously addicted to the rye flavor – I am still debating whether to get that book, MC. I don’t bake bread often enough… keep another starter… what to do? what to do?
As Stan said in his comment on FB, you don’t have to keep a rye starter. Just feed wholegrain rye flour to your regular starter a few times and you’ll be in business. I think that’s what I’ll do from now on as I can’t be bothered with two starters either. Also some of his breads are quick breads or crackers. Very tasty. I tried the archipelago bread the other day and liked it very much, except that when I make it again, I will skip the honey. I don’t need my breads (even quick breads) to be so sweet and there is already molasses (and raisins) in the dough. Quite enough sugar for me!
I cannot resist much longer… I think I’ll order it
(sigh, sigh, sigh)
I can’t imagine that you will regret it. Tons of good recipes and mouth-watering pictures!
I caved. Should arrive on Friday….
🙂
This is the recipe that I’ve been thinking about trying. It also calls for a many hour bake:
http://www.196flavors.com/2016/03/10/germany-pumpernickel/
It does indeed. I don’t know how comfortable I would be with leaving the oven on overnight with no way of ensuring that the water bath wouldn’t dry out. But the bread does look fantastic. Thank you for sharing the recipe, Stella!
I live in Brooklyn, NY. I visited Copehagen several years ago, and while there I loved having a piece of rye bread topped with a slice of mild cheese. My question for you: in your opinion and experience, what kind of cheese, available here in the United States, best approximates the Danish mild cheese typically eaten with the rye bread?
Thanks!
James
Sorry for replying so late, I just saw your comment. No, I wouldn’t know, sorry. If I had to guess though, I would go for a Monterey Jack. But my Danish family was actually a fan of a terribly smelly cheese they used to put on their rye bread. They even had it for breakfast. I was glad it was summer and breakfast was outside in the garden.